Steven Seagal is a musician, philanthropist, environmentalist, animal rights activist, producer, writer, reserve deputy sheriff, 7th-Dan in Aikido, Father of the Front Kick, father to sons Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida, and somewhat boyishly handsome action film star, with, admittedly, an odd gait. Among his elite UFC fighter brethren from Brazil, he is said to be known as “Fritão”.
Hearing this may come as a terrible shock, but some say that O’Sensei Seagal is also a creep, and worse. As fight coordinator and former PRIDE commentator Stephen Quadros related, “I had heard all the horror stories about how he would hurt actors and stunt performers, dislocated shoulders, kick guys in the nuts to see if they were wearing cups, etc. I had heard about Gene LeBell.” The Gene LeBell story – “Skidmarked For Death” – is legendary, and has been retold for a generation. But is it true?
In 1991, the now-deceased LeBell was working as a stunt coordinator on the award-winning Aikido documentary Out for Justice. From there, stories diverge. It’s alleged that at some point, Seagal claimed he was immune to chokes due to his extensive martial arts training. According to this telling, when the then 58-year-old LeBell heard about the claim, he gave Fritão the opportunity to test his choke immunity.
As the story goes, LeBell set the choke up, Seagal said “Go”, and promptly went unconscious. And then went #1 and #2, in his trousers. Ever since, either because of a rumored legal gag order (see below Masato Toys action figure for confirmation), or because in the stunt business what happens on the set stays on the set, LeBell has never definitively confirmed or denied the story.
However, the story has been repeated as fact countless times, privately and publicly, by the likes of Joe Rogan (watch here), Ronda Rousey (watch here), and just about everyone else in the space.
‘Judo’ Gene LeBell Speaks
Over a decade ago, MMA journalist Ariel Helwani asked LeBell to confirm or deny the alleged Steven Seagal evacuating episode.
“Did you in fact choke out Sensei Seagal, and is it true that he did in the process soil himself?” asked Helwani.
LeBell replied with a significant degree of ambiguity.
“Well, if a guy soils himself, you can’t criticize him. Because if he just had a nice big dinner an hour before, you might have a tendency to do that,” said LeBell. “Steven Seagal is a very outstanding martial artist. I’ve got nothing against Steven. … Personally, myself, I don’t think he’s taught these mixed martial artists how to win a match. … He’s done a lot for martial arts. But I know where he’s insulted Randy Couture. Well, Randy Couture if he ever got mad would have him for lunch. … And that isn’t to put down Steven, but ‘closed mouth don’t catch any foot.'”
Helwani pressed on.
“So, did that happen?” Helwani again asked. LeBell again spoke elliptically.
“You can’t be braggadocious if you’ve done something,” he cautioned. “Everybody has their individual things that have happened. I personally don’t think you should put down, as many people do with Steven, because he’s trying to do his best.”
The journalist tried one final time.
“So does that mean, Gene, that you will not confirm this actually took place?” he asked.
“Well, if 30 people are watching, let them talk about it,” replied LeBell. “You interview a boxer or a wrestler and it’s ‘I, I, I’ and ‘me, me, me.’ What do I know? Gene LeBell knows Gene LeBell. And if I tell ya the stories … everybody that tells you a story is the hero of their own story.”
To date, this conversation is the closest LeBell ever came publicly to saying the story was true, and it’s not close.
Steven Seagal Speaks
Seagal has repeatedly and very pointedly denied the legend. He was beyond adamant during an interview with Helwani that took place not long after the exchange above with LeBell.
“Gene LeBell is a pathological liar,” said a clearly upset Seagal. “My children are the most sacred thing in my life. I swear on my children that we never ever had a fight at all. If someone doesn’t believe me , you can ask the stunt coordinator Conrad Palmisano. Conrad Palmisano is a Vietnam veteran. He’s a man of honor. He would never lie to anybody. You can ask him. There was never a fight. If LeBell said there was a fight, then he’s a pathological, scumbag liar.”
This is not a He Said She Said, it’s more a He Denied, He Declined to Deny. So what actually happened?
So is The Seagal Dookie Drawers Story True?
While it’s a compelling narrative, no one who was there has ever confirmed it. Stuntman, martial artist, and celebrity bodyguard (including for Seagal) Ron Balicki said emphatically and at length that he knew from witnesses that it did not happen.
“Another stuntman by the name of Steve Lambert was also an eyewitness to Gene’s and Steven’s brief interaction,” said Balicki.
Recently, the aforementioned famed stuntman Steven Lambert – a direct eyewitness – explained at length what actually happened, during an appearance on the Striking Samurai podcast.
“There was two bodyguards which were Steven Seagal’s, there was Steven Seagal, there was Gene LeBell, there was Lincoln Simonds who is stunt guy, and myself,” said Lambert. “There was six people there. … Nobody else was there, nobody else experienced it, nobody else saw. … Seagal didn’t piss in his pants, he didn’t go into convulsions.
“But there was a confrontation, it was a difficult physical confrontation … I happened to open the door and I saw Seagal and LeBell, and the two bodyguards talking in front of LeBell’s trailer. We were probably a good 30, 35 feet away and I said, ‘Hey Lincoln, LeBell’s talking to Seagal, let’s go see if we can join in,’ you know just innocently. So I jump down and I start walking over and Lincoln is about ten feet back of me, jumps down, and we start walking over we get there and they’re just having a simple conversation in front of each other.
“It’s Seagal and the two bodyguards are on each side of them … and they’re talking about moves and introducing themselves, being casual and entertaining and everything’s light. They start talking about different techniques, and they’re talking about a chokehold, and Seagal starts the conversation. He goes I see the way you do your choke holds, and he was disagreeing on the way that LeBell would do it, and LeBell said, ‘Well let me explain to you how I do it.’
“When you work with somebody, a master, a black belt, you know even somebody that is a white belt … it’s an automatic, known-fact rule, that you go slow. You’re having a conversation, you’re teaching, you’re showing, you’re expressing your movement, and that’s just what LeBell was doing, in slow motion.
“He walks around Seagal and he’s in back of him, facing his back, and Seagal’s kind of looking over. We see the two bodyguards looking, and Lincoln and I are kind of we’re in back of one side. and back of LeBell, watching, very innocent. LeBell starts to put his hands around [Seagal] and very slow, just as I’m moving right, and the minute his hands go around Seagal’s neck, before he even touched them, grazed them, Seagal just side steps full blast, and forearms down right in [LeBell’s] crotch.
“That’s crazy. I mean like if I told you if I spread my legs and I said hit me in a crotch with your forearm as hard as you can, that’s what Seagal did. And LeBell jumped up like three feet in the air, and I see LeBell’s face and it’s literally three feet in the air.
“The moment [LeBell’s] toes touched the ground, he just sidestepped and spun his hand around the front of Seagal’s neck, and took his leg and put it in back of Seagal’s feet and just threw his arm back and threw his leg forward, LeBell that is, and Seagal went flying about four feet high and landed right on his butt and back hard. Ouch. The bodyguards looked at LeBell, and I looked at Seagal, and I looked at Lincoln, and everything is in slow motion, and Lincoln’s mouth was open, and my mouth was open.
“I was shocked because that was full blast until then. The bodyguards they looked at Seagal, they looked at LeBell, and I’m watching this happen – a matter of a split second – and I’m thinking ‘Oh my God here comes a huge fight.’ Because I’m thinking the bodyguards are looking at LeBell, and the bodyguards look back at Seagal, and I look back at Seagal, and Seagal shakes his head like a no. The minute Seagal did that with his head, the bodyguards stood down, because they were like almost in reaction mode, confrontation reaction mode. Like I said, this happened in a matter of moments.
“The minute LeBell felt everything was easing up, he stuck out his hand and said, ‘But if I did that let me show you what you could do,’ and helped him up. I was scared that something else was going to go on, so I ran to get the stunt coordinator Conrad Palmisano. He was busy with sending camera, so I’m back at him, and he had producers, directors, the DP, everybody listening to him. So I’m in back, and I’m waiting for the right moment, because you can’t just barge in – you don’t want people to know, you don’t want to make a big thing out of this right? So I go in back of him waiting for the right moment and I kind of leaned to his ear and I said, ‘Conrad, there’s a confrontation with Seagal and LeBell at base camp, you better get over here and break it up.’
“Well he didn’t understand what I was saying, so he ignored me, and I’m just looking and he’s continuing with his camera work. So I walk away kind of hesitant, five, ten feet away, and all of a sudden he pops up and he realizes what’s going on, and he runs over there and he yells to LeBell before he even gets over there. He’s like 40 feet away – ‘LeBell, get back to your trailer.’ LeBell looks at him and goes right back to his trailer and that was the end of that. That’s what happened.
“Now who told, who got it out, who spread it out, I know I didn’t. I know Lincoln didn’t, at least I believe Lincoln. I don’t know if the bodyguards did it. I don’t know if Seagal did it, leaked it out. I don’t know if Gene LeBell leaked it out. Gene LeBell, I love him; you see how close Gene LeBell and I are in the movie? But Gene LeBell is a showman, right? I don’t think he would tell a lie.
“I think that lie, that rumor. that part of it pissing in his pants, and going convulsions, I think it was spread by somebody else, somebody who was writing the story, you know, somebody to somebody to somebody. But I believe LeBell would never say what was said to the magazines, and all that, if I had to guess. Also, let me say I feel horrible for Steven Seagal – he deserved it, what he got, because he started it. But the after-occurrence all these years later was brutal.
“I’ve seen Gene LeBell many times, he’s read my story; he says that’s exactly what happened. If you put Gene LeBell and I together on an interview, and I look at him and I say, ‘Gene isn’t that exactly what happened?’ He’ll tell you that’s exactly what happened. … We’ve discussed this already, I’ve teased him, he tells me that he didn’t say that, somebody else said that. He can’t figure out [who] but he’ll play with you if you interview him. He’ll play with you because Gene is a showman.
“It’s [Seagal’s] fault. I feel bad for him. It’s brutal because it’s carried on this long. But if he would have admitted it in a playful way with respect, at the beginning, or in the middle, or even now, it would go away. A couple of people have called me and asked, ‘What do you think would happen if we got them together?’ And I said, ‘Well, I’m sure Gene would come.’
“Seagal’s got to get off his high horse, and the trick is is to make it funny, make it funny when they meet, because I’m sure LeBell would make it funny – ‘Come here Steven, you know your ball shot made me fly in the sky, how’d you like me putting you on your back?’ ‘You know LeBell, you’re one of the few that has ever put me on my back, I congratulate you for that.’ It could be humorous and it would all go away – that’d be great if that played out.
“I’ve suggested that to a few interviewers that have called me up privately and Seagal refuses to do that. So I think our interview is basically the only one with one of the witnesses that’s going to be out there. You did interviews with Palmisano and Balicki and Seagal, where you were telling the story, but it sounded like they wanted to like bad mouth Gene LeBell, and kind of turn it into that.
“The only thing I will say on this video is that Seagal did not pee in his pants, and he did not go into convulsions. That’s all I’m here to say, because Conrad Palmisano asked me, a friend of mine, and that’s all I’m gonna say. My name is Steve Lambert. I’m here to say that in the Seagal-LeBell confrontation, Seagal did not piss in his pants or go into convulsions. End the story.”
“I can’t reiterate this more – anybody who says otherwise about this story are liars. It’s that simple because they weren’t there, the producers. the directors, whoever, only the six were there, nobody else saw.”
So, finally, from an eyewitness, comes what’s apparently the truth – Seagal did not dump in his drawers, but did got dumped on his back (sounds like by Osoto Gari). Lambert’s delivery is compelling, but clinching the argument, the story could not have come from Seagal’s direction, as it contradicts O’Sensei’s version, and makes him look like a fool. So the truth is cool, but not as cool as the myth. That’s the way it always is.
Gene LeBell passed away on August 9, 2022, a legend in the grappling world. Steven Seagal has lived in Russia since 2016, when he was granted Russian citizenship by his friend President Vladimir Putin.